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2021 Stop Sale on certain diesels incoming (intake air heater relay). - Recall Y76 REFRESHED OCT 2021

wolfpack said:
Just got an email from Mopar parts saying they’re cancelling my order for the AB relay because it is back ordered with no ETA. So that tells me, yes, failed A or AA relays get an AB and there are no ABs. God help you if your truck goes in and fails the temperature test. You won’t have a vehicle for 6 months.
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Fake news.
 
clarkfred said:
Had mine checked last week. They said mine is bad. I did not get a report on what they tested just that it is bad. I brought it in with the relay disconnected from the battery. Got back home expecting to have to disconnect it again....bit it was either already or still disconnected and hanging where I had it. Mine was built 4/21 and has the AA. Was told they don't have the parts they would call me back when the part came in. Got a call yesterday that the part was in. So I asked what the part was...he said an AB. So next Tuesday I will go back and have the AA replaced with the AB.

2021 Laramie
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This is good information. I know it is only one dealer, but they got in a truck with an AA relay for testing where you had disconnected the relay. Then then tested that disconnected relay and it failed. Possibly at least. I suppose they could have misread the recall and saw the AA and just noted it as a bad one needing to be replaced with an AB and did not actually do the temperature test.

It appears they gave you no pushback about having disconnected the relay?

When they determined it was a bad one, they left it as you had it, disconnected, and returned the truck to you to use until the AB relay is available.

Hopefully we will get similar reports from others. So far, unless I have missed them, this is the first report of a relay being noted as bad. Some have posted that if your relay is bad, the dealer will hold your truck until parts are available. I suppose any individual dealer could do whatever they feel the need to. At least having some reports of dealers letting trucks with failed relays remain in use will be encouraging.
 
Will_T said:
This is good information. I know it is only one dealer, but they got in a truck with an AA relay for testing where you had disconnected the relay. Then then tested that disconnected relay and it failed. Possibly at least. I suppose they could have misread the recall and saw the AA and just noted it as a bad one needing to be replaced with an AB and did not actually do the temperature test.

It appears they gave you no pushback about having disconnected the relay?

When they determined it was a bad one, they left it as you had it, disconnected, and returned the truck to you to use until the AB relay is available.

Hopefully we will get similar reports from others. So far, unless I have missed them, this is the first report of a relay being noted as bad. Some have posted that if your relay is bad, the dealer will hold your truck until parts are available. I suppose any individual dealer could do whatever they feel the need to. At least having some reports of dealers letting trucks with failed relays remain in use will be encouraging.
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Correct....Didn't have any problems getting the first appt or the second to get the replacement.

So far so good.....
 
clarkfred said:
Correct....Didn't have any problems getting the first appt or the second to get the replacement.

So far so good.....
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But you are not sure if they actually tested your relay or if they just designated it for replacement because it was an AA?
I saw somewhere else where a dealer told a customer that the recall instructs dealers to replace all AA relays with ABs so not all dealers read what they are supposed to do the same. I see the notice as saying if you have an AA and it fails the test, replace. Otherwise if it passes with no tape, apply RTV. If it passes and tape is present from factory, do nothing more, do not add RTV, recall is complete.
 
Will_T said:
But you are not sure if they actually tested your relay or if they just designated it for replacement because it was an AA?
I saw somewhere else where a dealer told a customer that the recall instructs dealers to replace all AA relays with ABs so not all dealers read what they are supposed to do the same. I see the notice as saying if you have an AA and it fails the test, replace. Otherwise if it passes with no tape, apply RTV. If it passes and tape is present from factory, do nothing more, do not add RTV, recall is complete.
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Correct - I have no paperwork that says the test was performed. Just the the relay I have is bad.
 
Its possible or maybe even likely that RAM pulled all the stock of AB relays to support the front end of the recall work. Just because you cant order one does not mean there are none available. Every part on the truck has a spare assessment done and the buy includes the spares.
 
Once the dealer delivers the truck, its the owners property. They have no legal standing with the vehicle. To "impound" it would be grand theft auto. A major felony. Its YOUR truck. :)

The only legal relationship you have is with the manufacturer who warrants the car for a period of time. You can take your truck to any dealer and get warranty work done. If you choose to disconnect the relay, on YOUR private property then that is clearly within your right and no dealer {or the manufacturer for that matter} can tell you not to, or reconnect it without your permission. Its YOUR private property.

The only "leverage" the manufacturer - through their dealer network - is as a result of the warranty. If you modify your vehicle in a manner that then causes damage to a warranted component, the manufacturer may choose to void that portion of the warranty. And only that portion. And the law says that you are NOT required to have all maintenance done at a dealer and only with dealer parts.
 
My 21 has the AB relay. It's also under the recall. I'd like to disable it, but not sure which cable or cables to disconnect. Are there any pictures showing this? Thanks.
 
The AB relay should be good to go after testing. I have the same and mine was temp tested last week. All good.

The connection is on the right side battery, the front inside corner. You can see the connector and trace the wire down to the relay.
 
Well - Had my recall work finished today. When they called and said they had the part in, I asked which part is it. They told me it is the AB. But today I found out it was really just the goop for the back of my AA they did not have. Service tech, according to the paperwork, did perform the tests - but didn't record the temps just that it passed. So I still have my AA but with goop on the back now.
 
clarkfred said:
Well - Had my recall work finished today. When they called and said they had the part in, I asked which part is it. They told me it is the AB. But today I found out it was really just the goop for the back of my AA they did not have. Service tech, according to the paperwork, did perform the tests - but didn't record the temps just that it passed. So I still have my AA but with goop on the back now.
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They do record the temperatures, but they document that separately I had to go into my RAM account for the dealer which had the data attached as a PDF.
 
Robtheelder said:
They do record the temperatures, but they document that separately I had to go into my RAM account for the dealer which had the data attached as a PDF.
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I had the service advisor look it up - because I wanted to know the temps. He couldn't find the numbers just the state that the test was performed.
 
Robtheelder said:
Strange. I suspect that they have a record of it for legal reasons.
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This is one of the things that concerns me. There has been no information that I have seen that says Ram has reason to believe that if a relay passes now, it is good forever. It seems possible, or maybe even likely, that all the test does if a relay passes is tell Ram your relay has not failed yet. And the reason for the tests are only so that when a truck does catch fire Ram can say "we did all we could. We tested that relay and it was good".

If that suspicion is wrong, it would be good for Ram release a statement telling owners why. It may be a pipe dream, but something like:

We have determined that some relays have a manufacturing, (not a design), flaw. Those flawed relays can possibly start a fire. The dealer temperature test shows which relays have the defect, regardless of whether they have failed yet or not. If a relay tests good, it is not one with the manufacturing defect and the owner can be assured it should not catch fire.
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That would at least give us some assurance that this recall and testing accomplishes something beyond just finding relays that have already failed and are likely to burn, and beyond just giving Ram some legal cover for the relays that test good now, but might catch fire in the future.
 
I read somewhere that they were not sure yet about all the failure modes This is in the rhelm of lawyers and big money so they are not motivated to say more than the minimum.

All relays will fail eventually. The design criteria certainly includes a minimum life cycle. So many hours of operation or so many cycles before a failure. They do testing on the early production units to ensure that it meets the requirements. And because its a life/safety item, I am sure that they have designed into the relay a failure mode that does not include catching fire. It should be designed to stop passing current at end of life. Instead, apparently it has an unplanned / unknown failure closed mode that allows it to continue to pass current upon failure. This should not happen. :)

The criteria they are using for the unplanned, catastrophic failure mode is based on examination of the design, and of failed units. They have done the modeling and concluded that if the relay has operated correctly for 600 hours minimum then it is not going to have the fail closed mode. It may fail, but it will fail open as it is designed.

Also, the heat cycle test probably has two failure modes. One is if the temperature exceeds a set value during any of the ten cycles. The other one is the slope of the delta T as the temp increases across the ten cycles. If the slope of the curve (rate of temp increase from one cycle to the next) exceeds a threshold then the relay is faulty.

The decisions around the recall are made by executives but the criteria for the testing is made by engineers. The engineers want the owners to be safe and secure. they want the truck to perform as it was designed.

Give them some credit
 
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