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2021 Stop Sale on certain diesels incoming (intake air heater relay). - Recall Y76 REFRESHED OCT 2021
- Thread starter Epsilon Plus
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toyboy1980
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Well again, for the record, I have an AA relay with tape on the back. It passed the temp test, but they still put RTV on the back of it. Whether that is wrong or right, is a separate question, but that’s what happened for me yesterday.
I have the same relay with tape and as long as they removed the tape first, I would rather have done what you got. Not just "passed the test, good to go". Somehow it just seems to me that RTV on the back is better than a piece of tape even if the truck passed the test. Although I suppose a person could RTV it themselves if they wanted.
toyboy1980
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Yeah, I almost did it myself, but I figured I’d have them do it for warranty purposes.
I think that is best. I was just thinking about someone who has the AA relay with tape and a good test. Some read the recall as saying in that situation nothing gets done, You just go home with the same taped over relay. If that happens to me, I would consider doing the RTV myself. Unless that is by that time there is a reason known to not do it. Or maybe in a month or two we will know for sure one way or another if there is going to be a whole new relay. I am just glad I don't live in Northern Idaho or someplace where it gets cold so I can just leave it disconnected for now.
Robtheelder
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If the issue is over heating then it seems the RTV acts as an insulator that reduces the ability of the relay to reject heat. If the issue is arcing or shorting to ground that then overloads the relay then the tape insulator should be a good solution. The problem is we dont really know what the failure mode or modes is or are. And apparently RAM doesnt either.
The combination of passing the temp test and more than 600 hours suggests that the failure happens in the first few hundred hours of operation so if you are over 600 hours the failure will not occur. The temp test is designed to catch either an abnormal temperature rise or max temp. It sounds like some of the AA units have a manufacturing problem that results in the overload condition.
I just returned from the dealer, and thought I'd share the results of the Y76 relay temp test, FYI. First, my truck: 2021 Ram BH, build date 6-3-2021, 1995 miles, 70 total engine hours. Has the "AB" relay, factory potted with white epoxy on the back.
Test cycle 1: 32.3 degrees C
Test cycle 2: 33.0 degrees C
Test cycle 3: 35.0 degrees C
Test cycle 4: 37.4 degrees C
Test cycle 5: 38.9 degrees C
Test cycle 6: 39.0 degrees C
Test cycle 7: 39.3 degrees C
Test cycle 8: 40.0 degrees C
Test cycle 9: 40.6 degrees C
Also, FWIW, I've had my relay disconnected for the past couple of weeks (until today, of course), and no DTCs were stored. Since it obviously passed the test, I guess I'll leave the relay connected, park in the garage, and forget about all this for now!
Test cycle 1: 32.3 degrees C
Test cycle 2: 33.0 degrees C
Test cycle 3: 35.0 degrees C
Test cycle 4: 37.4 degrees C
Test cycle 5: 38.9 degrees C
Test cycle 6: 39.0 degrees C
Test cycle 7: 39.3 degrees C
Test cycle 8: 40.0 degrees C
Test cycle 9: 40.6 degrees C
Also, FWIW, I've had my relay disconnected for the past couple of weeks (until today, of course), and no DTCs were stored. Since it obviously passed the test, I guess I'll leave the relay connected, park in the garage, and forget about all this for now!
I posted in the other thread about this issue but suppose I should put it here too. Today on first drive after disconnecting the relay, got a CEL and Code "P2609 intake air heater" for abnormal voltage detected in one of the air intake heater circuits.
Says it is abnormal voltage detected in one of the intake air heater circuits. Not sure if this is a coincidence or not but sure seems odd that it would happen right after disconnecting the relay from power.
Cleared the code using my Banks iDash. Now the iDash says no codes detected but the CEL is still on. Guess I should reconnect the relay and see if that fixes it?
Says it is abnormal voltage detected in one of the intake air heater circuits. Not sure if this is a coincidence or not but sure seems odd that it would happen right after disconnecting the relay from power.
Cleared the code using my Banks iDash. Now the iDash says no codes detected but the CEL is still on. Guess I should reconnect the relay and see if that fixes it?
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Interesting because that is all and exactly what I did? In fact the photo with the pencil pointing to the disconnecting place that Brutal_HO put on the first post is my photo. Today I got a CEL and code P2609 which searching online and my Banks iDash both tell me is abnormal voltage detected in one of the air intake circuits. That makes sense I guess, as disconnected, that relay circuit would have no voltage. Strange though that no others have had this happen.
cycling4life
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When I had mine disconnected from the battery, I made sure to double tap the press to start button all the time. Not sure if that made the difference.
I have thought about this a bit now and your idea is one of the things I came up with as a possibility.
This time for sure I know I did not press it twice. I got in the truck and just absent mindedly pressed the brake and start button (once) and I am sure the grid heater countdown began. I just sat there thinking about other things for a minute until I realized the truck had not started and the heater countdown had gone all the way down. I then said "oh yeah" it is not going to start. I then pressed the button a second time and it started right up. But I really think you may be correct and the fact that I did not think to press the button twice right away and just absently went with the old habit of waiting for it to start on its own after the preheat is what caused the CEL. Perhaps @Jimmy07 will chime in and let us know if this makes sense to him. If it does, then I caused the CEL by not pressing twice at the start. Once the preheat timed down without temps coming up to what the computer expected, that triggered the CEL. If I pressed the start button twice right at the beginning, I guess the computer would know I was purposely bypassing the preheat and not throw that code?
Still odd that the code was defined as abnormal voltage and not abnormal or low temps. In the code information, the AIT was 41 degrees.
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diesel_driver_3500
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I have had my relay disconnected for about two weeks, and driven about 4 times since then. Each of those times would have included two or three restarts. Only once did I do a double-tap of the start button. Also, I have seen the "waiting-to-start" timer come on a couple of times. My truck is garaged when not driven and the temps have been mild all that time. So far, I have not had any lights come on and everything seems normal. My truck is a 2021 HO with either a March or April build date.
gpattikjr
Well-Known Member
Were the temps low enough to call for it to run?
If you only pressed the start button once and the truck started, then maybe temps were above the 41 degrees it was when I started mine. I have noticed that sometimes, usually when the truck is warm, pressing once starts the truck. But more often, especially first thing in the morning, and before I disconnected the relay, I would press start once leaving my foot on the brake and the pre-heat countdown would occur. After it finished the truck would start on its own. This time I pressed just once, the countdown occurred and the truck did not start on its own. I suspect this is because the temp was low enough so it wanted the pre heat before starting. So I pressed the button a 2nd time at that point, forcing a start and perhaps that is what caused the CEL.
diesel_driver_3500
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I would guess the temps were always in the low 50's or above. Also, when the pre-heat timer did come on, the truck always started on it's own once the timer was finished.
Hmm, that seems to throw out my and cycling4life's theory. I don't know what to think if, after the relay was disconnected, you had the truck do its diesel pre-heat countdown and then start on its own without a second press of the button. In my case the diesel pre-heat countdown definitely occurred but the truck did not start until I pressed the start button again. I noticed the CEL after driving about 1/2 mile but that only means that is when I noticed it. It may have come on right then or when the truck started, I don't know.
In any case, I reconnected the relay and started the truck and the CEL was gone. But the CEL light may have turned off on the next start anyway without reconnecting the relay since I had cleared it with the iDash, who knows? I just drove the truck about 3 miles and all was good. I suppose I could disconnect the relay and see if it happens again or was just a one off thing.
Robtheelder
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I have read elsewhere that the battery current sensor detects the lack of current draw during start and throws the code as a result.
So if correct I wonder if remembering the double tap would avoid it or not? Seems odd that I am the only one who has reported it so far.
Do you recall where you read about that? I just did a Google search and did not find any posts that say that it happened to them. I would like to find and read. Thanks!
Edit: I found a couple of older references saying just what you posted. I had limited my search to the time frame of this recall and the posts I finally found were older. The older posts I found all said a slight variation of "You will only get a CEL if you "wait to start" with the grid heater relay disconnected."
So that may be the answer indeed. If you wait to start instead of pressing twice right away you can get the code and CEL. But not always I guess as someone above posted they did the wait to start and did not get a code or CEL.
I think I will leave my AA relay connected as it was for my upcoming camping trip just because I do not want to deal with a code or CEL while hundreds of miles from home. Hopefully the fire risk is so small that I do not need to be concerned for another week of having it connected. After all it has been connected since I got the truck in April. And it seems like all the relay tests posted about here so far have been good. So maybe I actually have a good relay. I know, lots of assumptions and wishful thinking in that but what to do? Even knowing what the cause is, I find having a CEL staring me in the face very disconcerting.
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Are you brave enough to let it count down and try to start on its own without a 2nd press? (Just kidding, leave well enough alone!)
There was one person yesterday that posted they had done the single press, let it count down, and their truck then started on its own without a 2nd press of the start button. But since that is only one person so far, I am still not sure if my issue was related to single pressing vs. double. When mine finished the preheat countdown, because the relay was disconnected, no true preheat occurred. My truck did not start on its own, it just sat there with the last bar of the preheat countdown displayed. So obviously the truck must have sensed some issue as it did not start. Once I pressed the button a 2nd time it fired right up but soon after is when I noticed the CEL. I have to believe the two things are related, but maybe not.